The Kids are Alright with Namrata Tripathi

Namrata Tripathi, publisher and president of Kokila (kokilabooks.com), an imprint of Penguin Random House, joins Matthew to talk about finding pathways to the reader.

Listen along:

About the Publisher: Kokila (kokilabooks.com)

Kokila (pronounced KO-ki-la) brings together an inclusive community of authors and illustrators, publishing professionals, and readers to examine and celebrate stories that reflect the richness of our world. By centering historically marginalized stories and making space for storytellers to explore the full range of their experiences, we deliver books that inspire and entertain readers and add nuance and depth to the way children and young adults see the world and their place in it. Kokila publishes work for children and young adults across all formats and genres.

More:

Browse all of Kokila’s titles and see what’s coming next by visiting kokilabooks.com

Selected titles featured on the podcast:

• The Night Diary by Veera Hiranandani (listen to episode published April 28, 2018)

• My Papi Has a Motorcycle by Isabel Quintero; Illustrated by Zeke Peña (listen to episode published July 30, 2019)

• Strange Birds: A Field Guide to Ruffling Feathers by Celia C. Pérez (listen to episode published October 21, 2019)

• At the Mountain's Base by Traci Sorell; Illustrated by Weshoyot Alvitre (listen to episode published February 24, 2020)

• Ten Ways to Hear Snow by Cathy Camper; Illustrated by Kenard Pak (listen to episode published December 21, 2020)

• Brave, written and Illustrated by Weshoyot Alvitre (listen to episode published April 12, 2025)

• A Hero's Guide to Summer Vacation by Pablo Cartaya (listen to episode published June 10, 2025)

• Bela and Lily by Natasha Khan Kazi (listen to episode published October 14, 2025)

Learn more about Boyds Mills and their upcoming programs by visiting www.boydsmills.org. 

Transcript:

NOTE: Transcript created by Descript. I've attempted to clean up any typos, grammatical errors, and formatting errors where possible.

Namrata:  I was having a great conversation with one of my colleagues about trauma responses and the work that one does to understand and unpack aspects of your personality that you think are innate to who you are. They feel like they're really central to th- you think they're your personality.

And when you unpack a little further, you might learn oh, am I really good under pressure, or is that actually a trauma response that I've had to cultivate over time to survive? Am I actually very funny, or do I use humor to di- diffuse tense situations? 

And so the joke that I have going in my group is that I actually don't have a personality, but I'm like a very highly honed, excellent trauma response, on wheels. 

Matthew: That is the voice of Namrata Tripathi, publisher and president of Kokila, an imprint of Penguin Random House.

Welcome back to the Children’s Book Podcast, where we celebrate the books and creators who help young readers feel seen, supported, and understood. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Boyds Mills, positively impacting kids by amplifying the voices of storytellers who inspire children to become their best selves.

I’m your host, Matthew Winner—teacher, librarian, writer, and a fan of kids.

Today I’m bringing you something a little different: an interview with a publisher. 

Kokila (pronounced KO-ki-la) brings together an inclusive community of authors and illustrators, publishing professionals, and readers to examine and celebrate stories that reflect the richness of our world. By centering historically marginalized stories and making space for storytellers to explore the full range of their experiences, we deliver books that inspire and entertain readers and add nuance and depth to the way children and young adults see the world and their place in it. Kokila publishes work for children and young adults across all formats and genres.

Knowingly or unknowingly, I have been interviewing Kokila authors throughout the life of this podcast and, in some ways, these episodes have been something of milestone episodes for the show because of the nature of the conversations and the connections I’ve made with the authors. 

I’ll link to the episodes from my archive, but just check out this list!

• The Night Diary by Veera Hiranandani (listen to episode published April 28, 2018)

• My Papi Has a Motorcycle by Isabel Quintero; Illustrated by Zeke Peña (listen to episode published July 30, 2019)

• Strange Birds: A Field Guide to Ruffling Feathers by Celia C. Pérez (listen to episode published October 21, 2019)

• At the Mountain's Base by Traci Sorell; Illustrated by Weshoyot Alvitre (listen to episode published February 24, 2020)

• Ten Ways to Hear Snow by Cathy Camper; Illustrated by Kenard Pak (listen to episode published December 21, 2020)

• Brave, written and Illustrated by Weshoyot Alvitre (listen to episode published April 12, 2025)

• A Hero's Guide to Summer Vacation by Pablo Cartaya (listen to episode published June 10, 2025)

• Bela and Lily by Natasha Khan Kazi (listen to episode published October 14, 2025)

You might have listened to those episodes, and I think that gives you a sense of the voice of this publisher. It reveals the fondness I have for the stories they publish.

Here are a few of the things I learned in this conversation: 

NUMBER ONE: Namrata enjoys that there are no typical days; each day brings new challenges and new things to celebrate. She talks about being at poles of introvertism and extrovertism at the same time. 

NUMBER TWO: Namrata approaches publishing, in some respects, as finding a path to the reader. This requires vision around the book to determine the book’s voice, discovering its audience, imagining its impact, and realizing its reach. Sometimes this means celebrating how a published book can open the pathway for other voices in the space. Other times it means expanding what’s possible in the children’s book space and in the medium of picture books, novels, and other works for children and young adults.

And NUMBER THREE: Namrata works with a group of “highly agitated women.” This was one of my favorite takeaways from the conversation and one that framed for me everything she does through this imprint. 

BONUS: We also talk about the designer of their incredible brandmark!

Let’s explore the challenges and uncover the wins along the pathways to readers!

Please welcome Namrata Tripathi to the podcast.

Namrata: Okay. Hello. My name is Namrata Tripathi, and I've been a children's book editor for the last 25 years, and I am currently the president and publisher of Kokila, which is a children's imprint at Penguin Young Readers. 

Matthew: Namrata, welcome. I'm so glad to be sitting and recording with you.

Namrata: Thank you 

Matthew: for having me.

I, of course. We first met back in New York City for a Penguin Random House event around, I don't know, social justice and things like that, that I think I I was exhausted in the 48 hours of deep, wonderful, vulnerable talking. It was a really great thing. But in that way I have kept in my mind those folks that have been in that space [00:01:00] as people that I can look to as some north stars for me.

And so I appreciate whether you've known it or not, that you've been one of those north stars for me behind the scenes. And then- Oh, thank you ... certain- certainly by you being the publisher behind so many books that I love and that I've had the privilege of speaking about on this platform with those authors and with those illustrators.

So thank you. Just your work precedes you, so thank you for being here. 

Namrata: Thank you, and for, thank you for championing our books and children's books in general. 

Matthew: Oh, you m- but to say you make it easy, come on. This platform is nothing if not me just being a fan of the amazing works that are coming out that see the kids that I teach every day.

I can't wait to hear more about what that's like from your perspective, because I know from my perspective of reading reviews and of considering what, what's missing in my library [00:02:00] so often, as I've said it comes back to Kokila. Could you first though, tell me what's giving you hope today?

Namrata: A good and essential question. One of the things that is giving me hope today is this sense of that the kids are all right, so there's a lot of times when I'll hear my daughter speaking with her friends, and over the years there's been a couple of different conversations that have just stuck in my mind where I hear them really casually and generously and honestly talking through questions often of identity that as adults we make such a big deal out of, and we feel so overwhelmed and uncomfortable approaching.

And they make room for each other in ways [00:03:00] that's so intuitive to them. Part of it is that they have language around things that we didn't have maybe. But when I hear them talking and there's an openness and an ability to evolve over time and be cool with it and know that your identity's not fixed and that they're just generous with each other, then I think "Oh, these kids are gonna grow up and be adults who just have a facility with loving themselves and knowing how that makes a space where all of us are a little bit happier and easier, and making room for everyone else to also be their actual self."

And I don't know, I feel like that's a really big deal, and every time I see that I'm like, "Okay, that gives me some real hope." Related, I think about when I've been to things like a book con or some big conference where there's a lot of authors present. I remember seeing teenagers come with Excel grids for the signing lines they wanna be in.[00:04:00] 

And when I see that too, I'm like, "Oh, okay. These teens we're gonna be okay. These are the people who are gonna run the world." They ... not to ... we have so much support we must give them. We are leaving them a very tough world to inherit, and I see how capable and driven and determined and clear on where they wanna go they are.

It just, that gives me a lot of hope. So it's the babies. 

Matthew: I love that. It is the babies. It is. So much of writing, but also of teaching, there's a lot of parallels there, feels like speaking to our younger selves and helping to repair or make space for or make safe a space for our younger selves. I think my younger self would have loved to grow up with the kids that I'm around every day- just because it's ... Some of them are just so fluid with their identity in a way that is radical to me Makes me feel like, wow, [00:05:00] I am old or times have changed- 

In these decades in a way that as you said, makes me incredibly hopeful for the future and makes me very easily say to them, "I can't wait for you to be my doctor.

I can't wait for you to sell me books. I can't wait- Absolutely ... to be reading your book," things like that because, oh, they're just the best. They're just the best.

Namrata: Yep. 

Matthew: Hey, so you've spent two decades or more in publishing. Incredible. W- what does it look like to be a president and publisher? W- what is that?

I can picture what it's like to be a librarian. I can picture what it's like to be a writer. I don't assume that your days all look the same, but what's like a typical day if I, if we were shadowing you? 

Namrata: I don't know that there is a typical day, and I think that's part of what makes the work so fun.

I think that being a publisher, and especially for me, I, I've come up through the editorial [00:06:00] rank, so it's an editor/publisher type of approach means that every day you inhabit like these opposite poles of your personality. So I think there's a part of me that's gotta be very introverted, which is like when I'm doing an edit, I'm on the page.

I'm really looking inward. And there's a part of me that's very extroverted, which is when I'm convincing a room of salespeople why to care about a book. I have to be really persuasive. I have to be a salesperson, right? There's a part of me that's really creative when I am problem-solving through a book with a, an author or an illustrator or really working through the kind of mechanics of story with them or the kind of the piece of it that's like extracting a kind of truth from them.

And there's a part of me that's has to be very business-minded, like when we're acquiring a book and I have to c- run the P&L and make sure that it makes financial sense for us and that kind of thing. There's a piece [00:07:00] of the work that's really inward-looking towards the company, so I have my team of editors and, our director/designer, like our creative team who I lead, and so I need to be present to them, the kinds of ways they want their career to grow, the kinds of questions they're coming up every, against every day, the problem-solving I need to do.

And then there's the outward-facing part where you're like, okay, now I'm at a conference or I'm talking to external partners at libraries or bookstores or organizations that promote literacy, and I need to be an ambassador for the work we do externally in that way. So w- I think there's a real element every day that goes between like the micro and the macro.

You're rubber banding between them in- In like very quick succession. 

Matthew: Did your time-

Namrata: yeah. 

Matthew: Can I just pop in to ask, did your time, you said coming up through the ranks of editorial, just help to reveal to you where your skillset lied or where you needed to build? That seems like to

It doesn't seem like. I [00:08:00] know not everyone would be able to move between the extroverted and the introverted, as you're saying, between all these different roles that require such very different things. I know that not everyone has that skillset. I wonder how much of that was y- you, you just are a person that has come up through the right set of experiences to make you uniquely fitted to do that, and how much has been learning for you and honing those skills?

Namrata: I think it's probably both. 

Matthew: Cool. 

Namrata: My, my guess is that, no two publishers are alike. They're, it's not really a defined role. Publisher can be, but you can be so many different kinds of publishers, right? You might come up through a sales background. You might have a really editorial point of view.

And there's a lot of different ways to do the job. And I think what every person tries to do, or even every editor tries to do, and I think maybe every human tries to do, is figure out how do I [00:09:00] speak to myself most honestly so that I show up every day doing work or kind of being present in a way that emphasizes and amplifies my greatest strengths and sets me up for challenges that will allow me to expand in ways that I find really rewarding.

And I just I think that every day about kind of everything. And so I'm sure that some of the things that we're talking about here, the sort of moving between multiple spaces, it may be part of my personality. I don't know for sure. One of the, one of the things that we talk about in our group sometimes we make it as a joke, but it's really not, is, when you think about trauma responses.

Sure. And I'm just, I'm ta- I'm taking a turn, but- 

Matthew: I 

Namrata: love it. I wa- I was having a great conversation with one of my colleagues about trauma responses and the work that one does to understand and unpack aspects of your personality that you think [00:10:00] are innate to who you are. They feel like they're really central to th- you think they're your personality.

And when you unpack a little further, you might learn oh, am I really good under pressure, or is that actually a trauma response that I've had to cultivate over time to survive? Am I actually very funny, or do I use humor to di- diffuse tense situations? And so the joke that I have going in my group is that I actually don't have a personality, but I'm like a very highly honed, excellent trauma response, on wheels.

That's 

Matthew: incredible. 

Namrata: So I don't know how much of it is like what have I learned and who am I innately. It's very hard to unzip those things. But but I think it's probably both. Some of the things are probably because of just who I am, and some of it must be because of the experiences I have. But I think I like to credit my upbringing.

My, my parents were diplomats, so I moved a whole lot. And so this kind of sense of being adaptable and m- and s- really being able to figure out what does this moment [00:11:00] need- 

Matthew: Yeah ... 

Namrata: and change how I approach it to really be strategic and open but authentic about how you show up in a space feels like something I had to learn every day.

Because one day it might've been Pakistan, another day it might've been Canada, and those are very different contexts. 

Matthew: That's cool. That's cool that you're able to reflect that, too. I love a good therapy talk. Oh my goodness. But to be able to- reflect on if it weren't for these things, I might not be here.

But also if it weren't for me responding to the things the way I learned to respond to them. We can't just blame it on the things that have happened to us, but rather how we navigate through them. That's great. 

Namrata: Absolutely. 

Matthew: There's a book that that you recently published. I'm gonna bring up- Yeah ... a friend of mine, if you don't mind. Sure. There's a book that you recently published called Where Do Stories Live? 

Namrata: By 

Matthew: Meena Patel. And I don't know how publishers do this or if this was your perspective when you looked at it.

Namrata: Yeah. 

Matthew: I'm obsessed with the idea of forever books, of books that feel like [00:19:00] they could just live in a library forever and ever and be relevant to any reader that ever comes across it. And not all stories need to be that, but there's a handful that I think about that are. And that book immediately upon me reading it felt like, oh, this is speaking backward to my childhood as well as forward- to all of these readers in its poetic approach, in its metaphoric approach to us being living stories and that the way we connect is by living and by sharing. It's beautiful. I don't know what looking from a per- a bird's-eye view at Kokila, what looking at your like your list of titles that you're gonna publish that season looks like.

Yeah. I have to imagine you have to be thoughtful about, we have a book that sort of feels this way or looks this way or will maybe, as you're saying, have a longer life, aim for those reprints, or [00:20:00] maybe be New York Times bestselling and what have you. But, But I maybe, I don't know where I'm going with that other than to say I would like to say- 

I love that you published that book. It makes- thank you ... it endears me, as a librarian and as a reader, to Kokila to know, yeah, this is the kind of book that they publish. Sundust was the same way. And of course Zeke did m- wonderfully. Way to go. Caldecott, this is amazing. You did- well-deserved, and I had known him from another book that you had published called My Papi Has a Motorcycle. Has a motorcycle. Love that book. But it just, Maybe what I'm honoring here is that there's a little bit of magic going on with what you and maybe everyone does. But I wanna give back to you that I don't know that you can ever plan for it, but I love that you are publishing books that make me feel like not just, oh, I'm gonna watch what this author does next, but rather I'm gonna watch what this publisher does next.

And I don't know that, that we as, on the reader side or the teacher side or the librarian side always look [00:21:00] that way, but you've got a voice to what you've been publishing or what is what I've been noticing that, that really says something, really means something. And- Thank you ... I think that's beautiful.

Namrata: I appreciate so much you saying that, and I think it ties deeply into your question about what is success and how do we measure it. Because, one, we're absolutely thinking about success on a title level, and it's something that each of us on the team has to think about every time we acquire a book, and we have to [00:22:00] define what does success look like for this book, and how do we wanna try to achieve it?

Because we must know it's not the same for every book. Every book is trying to do a different thing, and we have to really be in conscientious dialogue with it, right? So some books you might say, okay, of course there's a financial responsibility because publishing is not a nonprofit endeavor. So overall, across the board of all the books we publish, that is something I'm absolutely thinking about.

That's part of my job. But there's also the thing about, okay, some books feel like maybe success for this book is that we tell a kind of story that no one else could publish elsewhere, and how can we be an imprint where people can do their best work and do the kind of work that may not have been possible anywhere else.

It might be about reaching an audience that we feel like we haven't reached in the past, so we'll say, "I wanna reach this reader," and we can find a place for it. And this book, I just want it to reprint and reprint, and sometimes when I see our books come up for their 10th, 11th [00:23:00] reprints, I really feel like that is success, even if they were small numbers.

Over time it tells me we're doing something that's sustained. It might be some of our books that hit the Times list, which feels really important as well because it says, "Hey, I'm playing in a certain space." There's a kind of national level attention, especially when you hit something like a USA Today list, 'cause that's not even by category.

That's all books across the country all at once, all mixed together. 

Matthew: Oh, okay. 

Namrata: So I feel like when we hit one of those you think, "Oh, this is like..." You could have a Dan Brown book, but my poetry book is on that same list. That's wild. 

Matthew: Oh, that is wild. 

Namrata: And that happened with Black Girl You're Atlas.

That has the... hit the USA Today list- Okay ... which I was really proud of. And it might be, it could be awards, which of course, that kind of recognition sometimes points to a sort of way that people are appreciating the artistry that the author, illustrator, and, the team working on the book behind the scenes is putting in.

But that can come unevenly too, right? It g- it varies year by year. You never know where it's going to go. But we're trying to do a lot of different things, [00:24:00] and one of the things that all of that rolls up into is how I think about the work of the imprint. Part of it is to do great books.

Absolutely. That's the part that you all see. 

Matthew: Yeah. 

Namrata: The parts that I'm sometimes most interested in are the parts you don't see. So I think about how we try to create an environment where maybe books are made in a slightly different way. Can there be ways that we subvert some of the defaults of publishing that I think have been damaging to creators, especially creators of like from communities that have traditionally been marginalized in publishing?

And I'm happy to talk through some of those with you. Are there ways that we can create an environment where- People can thrive in the ranks of being bookmakers in publishing, which is also often a pretty tough place to survive year after year, especially if you're, like, maybe a person of color, you're queer.

Publishing is still [00:25:00] pretty homogenous. And that's not... That has effects, and it's not accidental, and then I think about how in doing those things we can create an example of systems that might create possibilities in other places, either in the ways that people thrive or in the kinds of books they can bring in.

So one thing that gives me so much pride is, or something that I take so much pride in, is that every time I see one of our titles being used as a comp title at another imprint or another house. Because it lets me know that we're we're doing double duty. We're making the books and hopefully helping our colleagues across the industry who are doing important, beautiful work also have maybe a little bit of an easier time to do that beautiful, important work.

And that, to me, [00:26:00] feels like the responsibility we have to each other. They do it for us, and we really wanna do it for them. So one of the things I feel grateful for being in a, it's, there's challenges and advantages to being in a huge company, right? And one is, one of the great ch- advantages for me is that our little team, I think, gets to have an outsized influence.

It kinda lets us punch above our weight, and I think exerting a kind of positive change on the industry is absolutely something that I kept as a measure of success in launching the imprint. It's, I'm here ideally not just to make beautiful books that kids will love, but to expand our understanding of what beautiful kids, like what beautiful books kids will love are possible, and to

Matthew: Okay. You said something really interesting a minute ago that made me think about our Kid Lit writing community. And I wanted to give that back to you because I value that what you told me to me felt like we publishers aren't in this to see each other fail. That a quality of success for you is not only for a book to reach its reader, but that it feels good when another publisher uses your book as a comp title.

Absolutely. That is... I don't know why that feels different or unexpected or whatever for me. It feels [00:30:00] really hopeful to know that there are people in publishing, maybe a lot of people in publishing, that know this is the book that is the right one for us to publish, but also, wow, those, my colleagues are publishing some really great books that are gonna be loved by some really great readers.

That feels great to hear you say that. 

Namrata: Absolutely. On a selfish level, I'll say, my kid is a pretty voracious reader and I feel like I, I don't think it can, it can't be on me to keep her bookshelf full. I need us all making terrific books so that kid has a bookshelf full of books that get her excited about the world and help her examine herself and think about what's possible and all of those kinds of things.

I really think it's a collective effort, and I'm grateful for that, and I rely on it that we're all doing it We talk about how We need everybody's stories. Maybe we don't in, in the [00:31:00] writing community talk as much about how that's... We do need your story, but also that might mean that I'm not connecting with your story for whatever reason.

Matthew: It just doesn't, it doesn't connect with me because I don't have that experience or because I don't maybe understand where you're coming from, or the voice is not speaking to me. But I've been in this writing community long enough to know that there are plenty of really wonderful authors, champions of one another, who would say that book is not for me, but I can't wait for that book to meet the reader that it is for.

I think about, we had we've brought up off recording the name of Erin Entrada Kelly, who I bring up all the time because she just feels like she's a good human. I know she's a good human, but I like the way that she helps to model for us that we all wanna write great books. We all wanna be the book that a kid loves.

That doesn't mean it's to the detriment of [00:32:00] somebody else, or most importantly, it doesn't mean that what other people write is garbage. But rather that it's just not- it's not right for me or whatever. Very 

Namrata: right. I don't know. 

Matthew: Does it- 

Namrata: Yeah. 

Matthew: Yeah. 

Namrata: I think, th- this is the sort of zero-sum game thinking about success, not just in publishing, but everything, is so pervasive and is also such a facet of a kind of white supremist structure, right?

So I think, yeah, I think it's great that so many people are aware that's not the orientation that is useful to us, and eventually will not, that's not what's gonna lead to our growth and success. It's in fact counter to it. Yeah, you're right. Erin Entrada Kelly kind of models that so beautifully.

Matthew: Can you please talk to me more about- w- what work you're doing in building that that list of books you'll publish in a given season to help [00:33:00] make a space for other books to be published. When you were bringing up this idea of another publisher comping your title- ... I can't help but feel like you're opening a pathway also for writers to know, oh, we can publish books like that.

Maybe my story could be published. Maybe someone would value it. Not that readers wouldn't value it, but to have a publisher stand behind it and say, "We want to invest in your voice and your story," does mean something. We have this route of self-publishing, but I think for a lot of people there's different paths for different people, and it's right for different people and wrong for different people.

But also being able to have the resources that- ... a traditional publisher can offer means that ideally you'll be able to reach an exponential number of readers. It's... I know that it's complicated. I'm not asking you to help me understand every facet of the children's [00:34:00] publishing world, but can you talk to me a little bit about how you do find those voices that you feel like this is gonna open up publishing a little bit more for those voices that historically have been kept out of publishing?

Namrata: There's a lot of ways that stories make their way to gatekeepers like me and every other editor. And that is often, maybe most often through agents.

And so that means that there's a... there's that hurdle of gatekeeping. That means first you gotta get an agent. Then from an agent you gotta get to an editor, and how do you even get in front of the right pair of eyeballs? So o- some of the ways that I think about broadening the books that we get is that every year we- we'll usually participate in a part of the...

a, a [00:35:00] program at Penguin. Before it was to be just us who did it at Kokila, but now there's like a Penguin program where we have educational like Zoom seminars for new authors and illustrators. And if you come and participate, then you can submit without an agent to s- to the imprints that are a part of the program.

So we usually do that. It's called Penguin New Voices and Visions, and that's a great program. And I wish we could just keep our inbox open all the time, but it's just logistically impor- impossible for us 'cause there's, only three of us editorially who are acquiring.

And so that's a lot... when you get hundreds and hundreds of submissions that's not possible. But one is just inviting voices that we don't usually get to see. Another thing is on our list at Kokila, and especially my own personal list at Kokila, a l- a great number of the books are books that I've gone after.

They didn't exist and they didn't come to me, but I was like, I really wanna see a book in the world about this thing. You know who I should call? I really wanna hear from or who could write a thing [00:36:00] about this? 

Matthew: No kidding. And I'll just... 

Namrata: Oh, yeah. And I think that's not super common, but it is sometimes up to a third of my list.

I just, I have a lot of ideas, and I have a lot of questions. Oh. And one of the things I love to say is that, the people I like to hire are folks where they have an agitation in their belly 'cause they're like, "Something is wrong in the world, and I wanna talk about it." Or "I really need to hear about this thing, and I wanna explore it."

And so I say that we're a group of highly agitated women, and that's... I love a highly agitated woman, but that sort of thing of do you have a fire inside of you about something that you just feel like you wanna dig into? See who you can do it with. So that, I think, comes from working with people who remain rooted in a lot of different communities, so you get to hear from a lot of different people.

That feels really important, too.

Matthew: Can we talk about your amazing logo? I am [01:05:00] fans. I have been a long fan of this show called 99% Invisible- ... with Roman Mars, and looking at the hidden design in everything. And my goodness, it's taught me to look at design and intention. And I know we talked a little bit off recording about this.

You shared an article with me that is no longer published. But with this quail bird being the harbinger of new beginnings, and this logo that is gorgeous, I'd love to just take a moment to share some acknowledgement and celebration of this amazing brand mark. 

Namrata: Oh. Thank you, and thank you for highlighting that because it gives me a chance to talk about our incredible art director, Jasmine Rubero, who in addition to being the force behind the visual mark of all of our books, is the designer of the logo too.

Matthew: Wow. 

Namrata: And what I love is, I, logo design is its own- discipline. [01:06:00] And when we were getting ready to launch Kokila in 2018 at that time we were like, "Okay, we got the name." That was a whole other thing, figuring out the name of the imprint, and we needed the logo, and we thought, "Should we get an outside designer who does logo design?"

And what I loved was that Jasmine was like, "I wanna give it a shot. Put me in, coach," and that kind of sense of just being a person who's "I have something to say, and I know I can learn, and I'm gonna do it," is just such a... it's a wonderful facet of who she is, but also what I hope we can embody as an imprint.

So it's something that when she said she's gonna work on it, I remember in those early days, her... going into her office and seeing all these books strewn about that were like, Birds of India, like stuff like this. And I was like, "What are you doing in here?" And she was like, "I just wanna understand."

Yeah, the Kokila is a Sanskrit word for the koel, which is a, like an Indian cuckoo bird. Yes. And it has a lot of [01:07:00] significance. I said harbinger of new beginnings in, like- 

Matthew: Okay ... 

Namrata: Indian poetry and things like this. And she's "I wanna understand its environment, its look. It's got this red eye that's, like- Yeah

so powerful." And she was really trying to understand the essence of this thing and then how do you make it a, yeah a visual mark that is like memorable, that is cool, that works on the spine of a picture book and of a, like a young adult novel. It has to do a lot of different jobs, a logo.

Yes. And so it's something that she worked on iteration after iteration, and we worked with some of the folks in-house who do branding to show it to them and think about, are these things working? She would mock up spines with the logo and the word mark, how the logo and the word mark might work together.

We had all these different things where first the Kokila logo fit into the K, like the beak pointed into the K of Kokila, and then there were certain times where we're like, "Oh, no, maybe it needs to be, like, a separate word mark." Like, all of these things were considered. [01:08:00] But that was all Jasmine, and it was a really fun process, and then going through the process of trademarking it was really interesting.

And so she... the article I sent you was that Adobe did a profile on her and the work of creating a logo. But what I love is that, yeah, you want something that is a shorthand for saying "This is who we are." And I think it is. It's like it's bold, and it's playful, and it's evocative of a certain place and thing.

It speaks to the context of where it comes from, but it in, it lives in all these new contexts, and I think that's such an amazing thing that she was able to do that. 

Matthew: I think it's incredible. I truly think it's an exceptional thing that a children's book publisher- Would even do that. It made me look to other publishers and I was like they're the only ones," I say lovingly.

But it's just incredible. It, truly I can't say enough about it. Maybe just as such a big fan of design it's remarkable. I can draw it. Exactly. If you [01:09:00] want to test me, I can draw it and recognize it. To see it along, at a bookstore along other spines and to be able to see it. There's so much we could do.

Could have... Maybe I'll have a conversation with her one day. You should. And we'll just talk brand designs- You should ... because I, wow, could I go off on that. Namita, what I want to say to you before we end our time together is that I wanna thank you for being such a remarkably thoughtful individual. I'm sure you could tell me that everybody in publishing has to be this thoughtful, but I'm here talking to you.

And you have left such a mark on me with how critically you think about what you're publishing with your power in this space, with how you're walking through this space

I love how strongly you love the things that you love because what comes out of it for me, for us, [01:10:00] is these books that we then get to love. I'm grateful to you For all of your experiences and everything that's led you to here, but I'm also grateful that you would give your time to me to share, and that I get to say this back to you.

Thank you for the incredible- Thank you ... work you do. Thank you. That's so generous. And thank you for just receiving our books with such openness and care, and for sharing them- ... too. I feel like that's... It's one thing to l- to receive a thing and love it, but it's such a different love to pass it on to someone else.

Namrata: So- Oh ... thanks for that. That means a lot, and I feel like that's how our community lives and thrives, right? So thanks so much, and thank you for making this time so that we could have this conversation. 

Matthew: I will toss in before I ask you my closing question that not only- ... have I been able to love those books, but because of this unique platform that I have, I've gotten to, to love [01:11:00] those people.

And to love those people. I think about them, and I think about the next book they publish. We brought up Meena before. I think about her. I don't know that she even knows. I think about her all the time because her books have made a mark on me. That's so wonderful. And that's something incredible, too, that you're bringing those people to read as well.

Namrata: That's what makes every day so fun, right? I think it, it's the, it's the honor and the opportunity we have is to publish all these brilliant creators. It's really- Yes ... it makes every day worth it. 

Matthew: On that note, I'll ask you this, that I will see a library full of children soon. Is there a message that I can bring to them from you?

Namrata: Yeah. I think it would be great if the kids that you see know that- While they're in the library to find the perfect book for them, there's like a whole community of people who know that the story they're waiting for is that [01:12:00] kid's story. And I hope they just know like that story's really valuable, that it brings like insights that we're gonna care about.

And so just to know that for themselves but also like maybe take some notes, kids, because they're gonna be real handy later when you're publishing

Matthew: Thank you to Namrata Tripathi for joining me on the Children’s Book Podcast. 

You can browse all of Kokila’s titles and see what’s coming next by visiting kokilabooks.com.  

Selected titles featured on the podcast:

• The Night Diary by Veera Hiranandani (listen to episode published April 28, 2018)

• My Papi Has a Motorcycle by Isabel Quintero; Illustrated by Zeke Peña (listen to episode published July 30, 2019)

• Strange Birds: A Field Guide to Ruffling Feathers by Celia C. Pérez (listen to episode published October 21, 2019)

• At the Mountain's Base by Traci Sorell; Illustrated by Weshoyot Alvitre (listen to episode published February 24, 2020)

• Ten Ways to Hear Snow by Cathy Camper; Illustrated by Kenard Pak (listen to episode published December 21, 2020)

• Brave, written and Illustrated by Weshoyot Alvitre (listen to episode published April 12, 2025)

• A Hero's Guide to Summer Vacation by Pablo Cartaya (listen to episode published June 10, 2025)

• Bela and Lily by Natasha Khan Kazi (listen to episode published October 14, 2025)

Our podcast logo was created by Duke Stebbins (https://stebs.design/). 

Our music is by Podington Bear. 

Podcast hosting by Libsyn. 

You can support the show and buy me a coffee at matthewcwinner.com or by clicking the link in the show notes.

And on that note…

Be well. And read on.