Getting Back Home with Debbi Michiko Florence

Debbi Michiko Florence, author of The Mastermind’s Trap (Aladdin), joins Matthew to talk about finding a way to get back home.

Listen along:

About the book: The Mastermind’s Trap by Debbi Michiko Florence. Published by Aladdin).

In this sequel to A Study in Secrets that’s Only Murders in the Building meets The Westing Game, Meg must figure out the identity of the mysterious Mastermind to save her school and her friends.

After winning a scavenger hunt with her new friends—Tana, Zane, and Ryan—Meg Mizuno is looking forward to winter break and enjoying their grand prize of an all-expenses paid trip to California. But after learning that their boarding school, Leland Chase Academy (called Last Chance Academy by students), is in danger of shutting down, it’s hard to enjoy the sun and surf.

When they return, the Head of School reminds the student body of their mandatory participation in the Student Showcase, with the goal of bringing in needed funds to the school. If that weren’t enough pressure, Meg discovers a new note: the Mastermind wants her to help him with one more scavenger hunt. This time, though, she must work alone, or else the Mastermind will not only ruin the school, but also publicly reveal secrets about all her friends that would turn their lives upside down.

More:

Visit Debbi Michiko Florence online at debbimichikoflorence.com 

Other helpful links:

• Debbi Michiko Florence at Boyds Mills

• Community Retreat with Grace Lin and Debbi Michiko Florence: Celebrating Asian and Asian American Stories (May) - Work alongside community members and spend time creating, dreaming, and discovering the many beautiful contributions made by Asian and Asian American voices in the children’s book field.

Learn more about Boyds Mills and their upcoming programs by visiting www.boydsmills.org. 

Transcript:

NOTE: Transcript created by Descript. I've attempted to clean up any typos, grammatical errors, and formatting errors where possible.

Debbi:   It's surreal. And I will admit that back in the old days many years ago when I got started, I had this vision of what a children's author was and basically it was a fantasy version of Jane Austen and an attic with a shawl.

Candlelight typing away at my stories and just writing books. But of course now we know that's only a portion of what we do. And the school visits for me are a happy. Bonus because it's an a rare opportunity, I think, to actually meet the people who are reading your books. We work in solitude.

We don't get to get immediate feedback from the readers. We can see reviews or whatever, very. Rarely is it from an actual age appropriate reader. So it's at these school visits that we get to hear the honest feedback for the books that we write. And I love it.

It's such a, such an honor.

Matthew: That is the voice of Debbi Michiko Florence, author of The Mastermind’s Trap (Aladdin), book two in the Last Chance Academy series. 

Welcome back to the Children’s Book Podcast, where we celebrate the books and creators who help young readers feel seen, supported, and understood. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Boyds Mills, positively impacting kids by amplifying the voices of storytellers who inspire children to become their best selves.

I’m your host, Matthew Winner—teacher, librarian, writer, and a fan of kids.

Debbi and I have known each other for a long time and at one point even shared a literary agent! I was first introduced to her writing through her Jasmine Toguchi series and we’ve crossed paths at writing conferences throughout the years. Catching up with her was terrific, especially because it meant I got to ask her about writing mysteries!

Here are a few of the things I learned in this conversation: 

NUMBER ONE: Meeting people who are reading your books is a really special thing for Debbi. I’m perpetually fascinated by the many hats worn by authors and illustrators. Some live for the school visits. Others are at home in front of their keyboards or composition tables. Others still find a balance with a toe in a little bit of everything. Regardless, it’s lovely to see those kids for whom you’re writing!

NUMBER TWO: Debbi writes with a focus on getting back home or finding a way to get back home. Imagine all of the obstacles you can place between your character and their ability to get home. It’s such an evocative thought!

And NUMBER THREE: Debbi writes for the reader she was. That’s a pretty cool thing to be able to identify. And to pull from your childhood and attempt to open up the world a little more to make space for that child is, frankly, inspiring to me.

So, a little about The Mastermind’s Trap (Aladdin) from the publisher:

“In this sequel to A Study in Secrets that’s Only Murders in the Building meets The Westing Game, Meg must figure out the identity of the mysterious Mastermind to save her school and her friends.

After winning a scavenger hunt with her new friends—Tana, Zane, and Ryan—Meg Mizuno is looking forward to winter break and enjoying their grand prize of an all-expenses paid trip to California. But after learning that their boarding school, Leland Chase Academy (called Last Chance Academy by students), is in danger of shutting down, it’s hard to enjoy the sun and surf.

When they return, the Head of School reminds the student body of their mandatory participation in the Student Showcase, with the goal of bringing in needed funds to the school. If that weren’t enough pressure, Meg discovers a new note: the Mastermind wants her to help him with one more scavenger hunt. This time, though, she must work alone, or else the Mastermind will not only ruin the school, but also publicly reveal secrets about all her friends that would turn their lives upside down.”

Ready to unravel all of the secrets?

Please welcome Debbi Michiko Florence to the podcast.

Debbi: Okay. Thank you. Hi, my name is Debbi Michiko Florence, and I am third generation Japanese American, born and raised in California, and currently living in a small coastal town in Connecticut.

I am a former educator with a degree in zoology, and I don't think it needs to be [00:01:00] said, but I'll say it. I love animals. And I am the author. Oh, I get to add something new and exciting. I am the Edgar Award nominated author of Books for Young People with my 31st book coming out this month. And I think probably my most well-known books are the Jasmine to Gucci series for young people.

Matthew: Ooh, welcome. Thank you. I would also say if you're in a, school library because so many of us love to purchase those wonderful capstone. Beginning chapter book series where they have all sorts of different scaling up. But you've got a wonderful series that I know my readers know you from through the Pets series.

Debbi: Oh, my Furry Foster Family. 

Matthew: Yeah. Furry Foster Family. That's what it's called. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like any one of you can have any number of books out, but if it's meet Yasmine Sadia, that's gonna be the one we know you for. Your other books are really great, but like. When there's eight or 10 of [00:02:00] them that's a wonderful thing, especially when kids are bonding with you early through your work.

Debbi, we, it's been a minute since we've talked, but I actually wanna bring us to this exact moment here and ask you what's giving you hope today, right now, as I'm meeting you. 

Debbi: Fortunately I feel like there are many things that give me hope, and I'm coming off a wonderful week of school visits at the American International School in Shania, India where I interacted with pre-K through eighth graders there.

And so I have to say young people. Give me hope. They were, I was so warmly welcomed and the young people were so enthusiastic over just everything. Not just books and reading, but also their friends and their family and the school and learning. So being in that environment really gave me hope.

And also of course, librarians and, teachers give me hope. 'cause they are the connectors, [00:03:00] they're the connectors of words and stories and books to readers. And I think that is just so important, especially now. 

Matthew: Debbi, you're 31 books in. I have always. Been fascinated at the big magic of books reaching any kid.

It can be the librarian hand selling, but we also have to read the review or somehow find out about the book. There's so many books that are published. It's magic. The books find their Way. We hope the right book finds its way to the right reader, but I wonder how that experience is to be then invited.

Across the ocean to speak somewhere. It's gotta be moments for you and other authors where you just feel like, I didn't even know those people were paying attention, isn't it? 

Debbi: It's surreal. And I will admit that back in the old days many years ago when I got started, I had this vision of what a children's author was and basically it was a fantasy version of Jane Austen and an attic with a [00:04:00] shawl.

Candlelight typing away at my stories and just writing books. But of course now we know that's only a portion of what we do. And the school visits for me are a happy. Bonus because it's an a rare opportunity, I think, to actually meet the people who are reading your books. We work in solitude.

We don't get to get immediate feedback from the readers. We can see reviews or whatever, very. Rarely is it from an actual age appropriate reader. So it's at these school visits that we get to hear the honest feedback for the books that we write. And I love it.

It's such a, such an honor. 

Matthew: That's terrific. I love the notion that books can ripple and we don't know where they'll go, where they'll land and books have a life beyond. The publishing cycle, certainly because, especially because of libraries. You might find that book 5, 10, [00:05:00] 15 years after it came out.

So it is neat to find, oh, this book ended up on a book award in this state somewhere else that I haven't ever visited yet. Or Right. Or this country, this country. Exactly. It's just a cool thing. Yeah. So I marvel at that and I love that. That you all have the opportunity to engage with readers and that we have the opportunity to invite you into our spaces.

Certainly it goes without saying, but it's quite a privilege to be able to. Bring someone to a school and engage with readers that know your books and also those that don't. And then they suddenly become the biggest Debbie Micko Florence fan. Oh, do you have all of her books? I have a bunch. But now you've all checked them out.

Debbi: Yes, I do love that. That is a wonderful benefit. I get to hear afterwards how well none of your books are available in the library now. 'cause they're all checked out and there's a waiting list. 

Matthew: We'd have you sign them, but they're off in homes and backpacks and back seats of cars. Yeah. [00:06:00] Lovely. You have the 31st book coming out is the sequel to Last Chance Academy.

Is that. 

Debbi: Yes. 

Matthew: Wonderful. Yes. Masterminds Trap Book two. Would you mind sharing a book, talk of this book for those that haven't encountered it yet? 

Debbi: I would love to. I think I need to talk a little bit about the first book. Please Do. A Study in Secret starts out with 12-year-old Meg Miso, who's being driven by our dad to a boarding school called Leland Chase Academy.

But this. Very small student body calls it Last Chance Academy. And she is grieving the loss of her mom. So she's done poorly in school and this is her dad's attempt to help her. But she's very resentful of being sent to this middle nowhere, upstate New York school. And she's determined to figure out a way to get back home when she's there.

All the students receive a mysterious silver envelope slid under the doors of their dorm rooms, inviting them to participate in a secret treasure hunt. So now in book two, the Masterminds trap, [00:07:00] we start off with Meg and now her friends. So she was so resistant to making friends. But these four seventh graders have come together during the previous book when they were trying to solve the, this.

The treasure hunt and the four of them, Tarana Rabin, her roommate and the two boys, za and Ryan Shea, are on a winter break, vacation being chaperoned by Meg's evil aunt. And then along the way, as they get back to school and start the new semester, there's a new treasure hunt. And this time Meg must work alone in order to protect her friends and save the school.

Matthew: I like that you flipped the dynamic need to pull people in needing to work by yourself. The Edgar Award though that's for mystery writing. That's for this, right? It 

Debbi: is. It is. For book one a study in secrets. 

Matthew: Ah, some tell me. Tell me about. Writing mystery, Tommy, clearly you do it well. You gotta recognize this is wonderful.

But I [00:08:00] feel like writing mystery from the from reading the reader perspective, it, when I read a mystery, it feels like someone built a puzzle for me and that feels, as a person who has never built a puzzle for somebody else, feels intimidating, feels like the pre-writing process. May look really different than pre-writing a, a, whatever a traditional, novel, realistic fiction novel might be.

Maybe to use an example, can you talk to me about your approach into mystery? 

Debbi: Yes. Now, this has now become a podcast on true confessions. 

Matthew: Oh. 

Debbi: So you said you were saying that writing a mystery seems intimidating because of the puzzle aspect and Yep. This was a challenge for me and I think that's why when I found out that a study in Secrets was nominated I was just, it was a incredibly validating.

Moment for me because I thi this is my first [00:09:00] mystery that I've officially written. I read Mysteries voraciously, but have never attempted to write one because I am a pants, which means of course, I have a premise, some characters, a vague idea what the story's about and where it's going. And then I write and I figure things out as I go along.

And for me it's worked really well, but it was. Not the ideal way to write a mystery. However, I'm going to confess that is the way I wrote this mystery, but it just took more drafts and more deep thinking because as I. My first two drafts, I threw in things, but you can't. It's that smoking gun thing.

You can't show something or say something and not have it show up later, be or be meaningful unless it's a red herring or a kind of a trick. But I did have to figure it out once I mentioned something I had to ask myself as I was revising. Okay, is this. Meaningful. Is this a red herring or do I delete this 'cause it's nothing?

And then now that I had the [00:10:00] whole draft, I could look ahead and say, okay, I can make this work. I can make this thing work toward the final mystery. And I will admit also, when I wrote the first two drafts, I didn't know who was running the game. I had to figure it out as they went. So it was a mystery to me too.

Matthew: That. That's a terrific meta way to write a book. I don't know who's doing it, kids, what do you think? Let's 

Debbi: figure it out. 

Matthew: Figure it out together. But also it, I think about comedy writing as well. When I'm hearing you doing multiple drafts in, how do we know when something's funny and how do we still know if it's funny, if we've had to edit and edit.

Are we able to get enough distance from it to know this is still working? I wonder similarly with going through drafts, if that was part of this balancing act for you was how much do I, the [00:11:00] author know, and how much really actually is on the page for the reader to follow? 

Debbi: This is why your writing group and your editor so important?

Because in my head it made sense or whatever. And then I'd have like my writing group partners read it and then they'd have questions and I don't get it. How did this connect? Or, I don't understand why you mentioned this. And then I knew that I had to go back and fix it or make it more clear.

Same thing with my editor. She would point out things and ask me to bring out more. Clues or I think my biggest challenge was raising the stakes. 'cause I always wanna protect my characters and I also am a certain kind of mystery reader. I like cozy mysteries. I don't like, I get scared very easy or very very nervous.

And sometimes I, for the most part, I write for the reader I was, and I would not have liked a truly scary. Mystery. So I think, I don't know if there's such thing as a cozy middle grade [00:12:00] mystery, but that is where I was leaning. 

Matthew: That's a really, I'm writing it down. A really interesting concept.

I think many of us write for the reader. We were, but I'm gonna put on words onto you 'cause I'm projecting. Okay, 

Debbi: that's fine. 

Matthew: But I know how highly sensitive I was in m and I don't know that I would've, I definitely didn't read, I don't know, Hardy Boys or whatever. Mysteries would've been so prevalent.

Choose your own adventure. Even I think my approach maybe many people's approach, but my approach with choose your own adventure wasn't to read them, but was to skip ahead and go, what's the path to the ending that feels comfortable to me? Are 

Debbi: we gonna be safe? 

Matthew: It's, are we gonna be safe? Yeah. And that comes from security and that there's nothing wrong with that.

But knowing that. You are writing something that might go astray from I don't know what I'm saying. The mainstream [00:13:00] appeal of so many mysteries are like big explosions and life threatening puzzles or something. But how to go we're gonna protect this character and let some of the mystery be internal and let some of it be.

The survival of how do I make it through this school year if I can't concentrate on anything else other than not wanting to be here. 

Debbi: Right. 

Matthew: Is an interesting thing to do. Certainly there's, there I even think about like rajane loca to me writes cozy mysteries. Yes. When you're saying that word, I'm like I know what you're describing.

I know the feeling of them. So there, there are. Books there. Just neat to hear you reflect that, that was the voice that you were hearing resonate as you were approaching the writing. 

Debbi: What's funny is I try not to read reviews, but sometimes something will pop up on Google and I'll see something accidentally and, somebody said and I love it and I keep using it. This is a warm friendship story [00:14:00] wrapped up in a mystery. 

Matthew: Oh, that works. 

Debbi: I think that works. Yes, it's very true. 

Matthew: Yeah. I think. That feels complimentary when I hear it. Oh, as well? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I want it to be a friendship story. 

Debbi: Yes. 

Matthew: But I, I know that we become friends for all different circumstances and that's not bad.

Okay. So you, Debbi, self-described as a pants or you're riding by the seat of your pants. How does one, I'm sure book one looked different also than writing book two, but how does one write a mystery and bring in character and bring in the suspense as your. Drafting, where was your maybe seed to start this that things started growing from?

Debbi: Oh, the original idea stemmed from a discussion with a friend of mine who we were talking about the old days when we used to get mail Oh. At the house. And I always tell when I do school visits, I try and explain, letters, we get mail, envelopes in the mail and you'd open it, wondering what it is.

Not a bill, not junk mail. It would [00:15:00] be possibly an invitation to a party or a friend just wrote to you, or maybe it's a new pen pal. And sometimes there'd be presents inside like a piece of candy or a sticker. And getting mail was so joyful back then, it's so different from emails or texts.

And then I, from there, I jumped off to what if somebody, a 12-year-old got. Some sort of envelope, what could it be? What would it be? And that, oh, wouldn't it be cool if it was like an invitation to a treasure hunt? 

Matthew: Yeah. 

Debbi: And then I went to if they kept getting. Different clues. Eventually a parent or a guardian in that house would come across it.

It couldn't stay secret for long. So that's when I'm like how can I remove that? I know a boarding school because, and the envelopes come under the door. Ah so no adults would be able to intercept. And so that was the seed. And then of course that seed was a treasure hunt. And I'm like, oh, no.[00:16:00] 

A treasure hunt. What am I gonna do with that? 

Matthew: Oh no. 

Debbi: Oh no. That's 

Matthew: funny. You're writing it and you're like, oh, I have to write something. I wasn't planning on writing 

Debbi: exactly. 

Matthew: That's amazing. You're listening to the Muse. You're following your muse, and that brings a certain truth to your story, doesn't it?

That I, listen, I was readers, I was just here writing it too. I was here listening to what the story was and trying to describe it as fast as I could for you. That's lovely. 

Debbi: Yeah. 

Matthew: Okay, so I wanna hop over to. Your connection with Boyd Mills friend of the show, Grace Lynn. Certainly talking about you a lot.

Last time she was on, because I brought up about. The community retreat that you and grace do which has been going on, I take it for several years, right? Five years. 

Debbi: This will be five years. 

Matthew: Yeah. Congratulations. That's cool. Thank you. Grace had, grace was like, I think if you heard it or not, grace was [00:17:00] like, oh this doesn't happen without Debbi.

Debbi's really the person behind it, 

Debbi: which is so sweet. She's so complimentary now. 

Matthew: It's the two of us. I know that as her person being her person, that quality of her, but I also. To acknowledge. One of the things that has really made me feel affinity toward Boyd Mills is these community groups that they do, and I believe your Asian American celebrating Asian and Asian American Stories community group might be one of the longest running ones they have.

I know that the LGBTQ one came. After it. 'cause I was watching for that to come up. And Leslie and Newman has been and Rob Sanders have been at the center of that. And I know they've also had fellowships from Muslim storytellers and for different groups like this. But this community retreat is really endured.

So I'd love to hear, especially for folks that don't know what we're talking about, a little bit more about what it is and then I want to ask you maybe a little bit more about how it's evolved. 

Debbi: Sure. It [00:18:00] was actually inspired by the Kwelis yes. Children of color. Conference. Conference.

Shout out to Laura Pegram. I had attended for the first time, I think I was on a panel in 2018, and it was, I have long been going to children's writers conferences and workshops, and it was the very first time that I'd walked in, looked around. And it was all people of color. 

Matthew: Yeah. 

Debbi: And I, that's in New York didn't realize it, right?

Yeah. It wasn't like But in 

the 

Matthew: center of publishing. Yeah. 

Debbi: Yes. It was, it's not like I went to other conferences and felt like bad or treated poorly, but it was the first time I walked in and looked around and felt like I belonged. I didn't have to explain myself or. Wonder if I'm saying something weird.

It was just like I belonged and I felt like I was a part of this community. I could just relax and be. And when I walked away from that, I thought to myself, wouldn't it be really awesome if we could do something like that for Asian and Asian American writers and [00:19:00] illustrators? And I immediately, of course, thought of boys Mills, formerly the highlights foundation.

And then I thought. Who would I want? I don't wanna do this by myself. Who, you don't wanna do it by myself? Who can I do this with? And that's, I reached out to Grace and asked if she would be interested in hosting something like this with me. And of course she was a hundred percent in. And we reached out to George and they were a hundred percent in, and we were supposed to have her first retreat in 2020.

What happened then? 

Matthew: Sure. 

Debbi: And we were all shut in and shut down and we couldn't do it. And the following year, sad to say it was especially needed because with the anti-Asian hate that was going on from complete, misguided and incorrect lies about where the pandemic stated yes started.

We really needed a safe space and so it couldn't have happened at a better time. We had our first one in 2021, and then from there. We just kept growing and [00:20:00] this retreat would sell out and we'd have a waiting list. Enough for a whole nother retreat. 

Matthew: It's about like 25 or 30 people. Right?

It's quite a number 

Debbi: of people. And then we'd have a waiting list. In fact, this marks year five. We always have it in May, which is, the a API heritage month. And so this month to celebrate five years, we're having two, we're having one in May and one in the end of August. Because the goal and the hope is to get everybody off the waiting list, it breaks my heart that people wanna be a part of this and they can't get in.

So it's, it's all about building community in Asian and Asian American voices and stories. 

Matthew: The retreat held at Boy Mills in central PA is a couple days, right? 

Debbi: It's th it's Thursday through Sunday, 

Matthew: so four days. Does it? Yeah. Does the programming look like what other retreats they're do where the writers that are coming are bringing.

Drafts that they're working on, there's [00:21:00] speakers that, that talk about craft, but there's also time to have opportunity to network and build community and also provide feedback to each other, a means of connecting so that as you leave the retreat, ideally those connections continue.

Debbi: Yeah, exactly. It's, there's very little programming. There's no real like workshops or teaching. It is basically a time to gather and do whatever sparks your. Muse. Yeah. You a lot of us write, so some people write in groups, they can get together and they write together. Some of us write alone because I'm very distractible, so I sit in my cabin.

I get a lot done. We have our meal times when we talk. We have a q and a that grace and I. Run. We have a fireside chat in which we do a origami craft and do fireside wishes. We have a virtual guest editor come in to answer questions. 

Matthew: Oh, okay. 

Debbi: And what, one more? And we do open mic on the last night, oh, cool. It is very loose, loosey [00:22:00] goosey. The biggest thing is we want people and to give people an opportunity to connect and to have time to work on their projects. 

Matthew: And it sounds like you give them the opportunity to come to not be intimidated. 

Debbi: Yes. Somebody said in their what do you call it?

The thing you do at the end, the review, the 

Matthew: Yeah, sure. The, when they give the survey review. 

Debbi: Yeah. The survey 

Matthew: of I'm 

Debbi: a writer. The survey where it's a hard, 

Matthew: listen, I'm a librarian. Every meeting we ever go to make sure you fill out the survey before you go home. Okay. 

Debbi: Yeah. Somebody said something, I am not quoting exactly, but it's you arrive as strangers and you leave as family.

Matthew: Good. 

Debbi: And that's exactly it. It brings me so much joy to know this because we do we come together and in fact, there were a group of people, I think it was in the second retreat, who were all from the same area. And they didn't know each other. What? You're from that city too? I'm from that city. Oh, wow.

And now great. They get together regularly. They have kid lit dinners. They support each other at one another's events. And that is exactly what [00:23:00] Grace and I were hoping to do, is give people an opportunity to connect and find community and find family. I feel like we are, every year we grow our family.

Matthew: And what a safe space. A safe ground to do that on. You could find local people, but also. That's meeting up with strangers. That doesn't feel, I haven't ever maybe I'm again projecting, but I haven't ever felt like I've successfully found a good local group because they're strangers to me. I don't know who they are.

We don't have context. Whereas if you have the context of we've, we all met at this place, we all invested in our own careers to go to Boyd Mills and to spend this time to set time aside. That seems and sounds wonderful. Have you and Grace found that? Things have changed over these years or that largely they've stayed the same and it's been what it needs to be.

Debbi: I think it's the same but bigger.

Matthew: I would imagine people bringing the awareness of it has got to change something, but it doesn't need to change [00:24:00] the format. 

Debbi: The format's the same. The community feel, I hope is the same. It's what I see. We have a mix of people returning year after year.

Matthew: I 

Debbi: wonder too. New people, too. Great. So that also brings me joy. We have a continuingly evolving group that expands. It's also a mix of pre-published debut. Authors and illustrators and more veteran authors and illustrators and I love that, that we have that mix and everyone feels so comfortable.

Matthew: Do you find that you get any specific kind of writing or. I'm sure you get something out of it. Every faculty member I talk to is oh yeah, it's a great time for me too. 'cause I'm, as a teacher does, if I'm being a good teacher, we are also learning from, if I'm being a good host, I am learning from the people that are coming.

But weirdly, Debbi, I'm asking you that you've done this for five years, this specific thing for five years. I'm wondering if your writer brain has looked forward to going to that space? Oh, too light in a certain [00:25:00] way or not? 

Debbi: Absolutely. Cool. Yeah it's magic that the campus is magic anyway, but being with community and with people, I have now call, I can call friends that is magic.

And I love, grace and I don't live that far away from each other, but we are both very busy and I love that we also have this opportunity to hang out and catch up. Of course, we've done the very Asian book trips, so we've also gone on road trips together. It's a great opportunity for me to spend time with Grace and also with other friends, and I'm gonna say my Asian American family to catch up and share and vent and be inspired.

All of that feeds me as a writer. 

Matthew: That sounds terrific. I hope that. You're able. No, I don't. I was gonna say, I hope you're able to get that wait list covered, but I don't, I hope that the wait list just makes the wait list get bigger. I hope that the wait list all coming to the August the second one just makes it now we have people waiting for both of them.

[00:26:00] Yeah, I hope it continues to pull in authors, I hope, in illustrators and books, makers, storytellers. I hope that. The mere existence of a retreat like this in a community like this causes someone to. Invest in themselves, in their voice as a storyteller. Yes. 

Debbi: That's what we want. 

Matthew: Yeah. Debbi, I'm so glad we got to connect again.

Me too. I hope I get to run into you in real life when we plan it. That was fun. Yeah, it was fun to run into you by surprise. But my brain gets flustered. I can't wait to cross paths with you again. Good luck for Thank you. These next two events coming up till Grace. I said hi. 

Debbi: Will 

Matthew: do. And in turn, I'll.

Share with my readers the answer to this next question which is that Debbie, I will see a library full of children tomorrow morning. Is there a message I can bring to them from you? 

Debbi: My favorite thing to tell young people when I'm talking to them is that [00:27:00] there is a book for everyone. So if you're reading something and it doesn't resonate with you, try another book and it might take a while or not, but keep trying. 'cause once you find that special book then you'll know exactly what you're looking for and you will have a lifetime of stories to lose yourself in.