The Voice That We Hear Inside with Katherine Applegate

Katherine Applegate, author of Wombat Waiting (Storytide), joins Matthew to talk about books providing the opportunity to practice being a better human.

Listen along:

About the book: Wombat Waiting by Katherine Applegate. Published by Storytide.

From the Newbery Award-winning, #1 New York Times bestselling author of The One and Only Ivan and Odder comes a stunning middle grade standalone novel-in-verse about compassion, resilience, and surprising friendships, following a dog named Wombat in the aftermath of a catastrophic fire.

Wombat isn’t actually a wombat—but when the homeless dog is discovered, singed and ash-covered after a terrible fire destroys a community, someone tags her with the nickname and it sticks.

Wombat is a “destiny dog.” Something inside of her (she nicknames it “Voice’) keeps telling her there’s a special someone out there who is meant to be her person.

Surrounded by a devastated town, Wombat takes up residence on bench near the makeshift community center, an old brick warehouse that, for the most part, survived the flames. A small part of the community center evacuation site has been repurposed for the local wildlife rehab sanctuary that burned down. All of the animals were spared, and the temporary quarters include an elderly fruit bat and a young Northern saw-whet owl.

No matter what, Wombat refuses to move from her perch, despite the efforts of many humans. Clearly the dog is waiting for someone. But for whom? And what are the odds they survived?

Fans of modern classics like Because of Winn-Dixie, Pax, and Katherine Applegate’s own Crenshaw and Odder, and timeless tales like Charlotte’s Web, will find a friend in Wombat and her story.

More:

Visit Katherine Applegate online at katherineapplegate.com 

Learn more about Boyds Mills and their upcoming programs by visiting www.boydsmills.org. 

Transcript:

NOTE: Transcript created by Descript. I've attempted to clean up any typos, grammatical errors, and formatting errors where possible.

Katherine: And I kind of wanted Wombat to embody that, that intense loyalty and dedication. But the strange thing is, she has not yet met her person. So it's a little bit different. And I... And yes, I did have to address Bob's issues because, you know, Bob was wrong. 

Matthew: That is the voice of Katherine Applegate, the Newbery Award-winning author of The One and Only Ivan, Wishtree, and the Animorphs series. Katherine's newest book is called Wombat Waiting (Storytide) and it is about a destiny dog waiting for who knows what amidst the ash and debris of a devastating wildfire.

Welcome back to the Children’s Book Podcast, where we celebrate the books and creators who help young readers feel seen, supported, and understood. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Boyds Mills, positively impacting kids by amplifying the voices of storytellers who inspire children to become their best selves.

I’m your host, Matthew Winner—teacher, librarian, writer, and a fan of kids.

I had the remarkable privilege of welcoming Katherine Applegate back to the podcast! She is an incredible advocate for readers, libraries, and animals, perhaps to no surprise of her readers. 

Here are a few of the things I learned in this conversation: 

NUMBER ONE: Katherine’s latest novel was inspired by a dog in Japan who was memorialized for stalwartly waiting for its master at a train station, never to see him return. She developed the character of Wombat after an animal out there looking for her person.

NUMBER TWO: Intense loyalty. What benefits us, our hearts, and others for us to show intense loyalty? And what holds us back? Katherine’s gentle approach examines loyalty through a compassionate lens.

And NUMBER THREE: Books let you practice being a better human. I adore Katherine for this statement. What better or safer place to practice than in a book!

So, a little about Wombat Waiting (Storytide) from the publisher:

“From the Newbery Award-winning, #1 New York Times bestselling author of The One and Only Ivan and Odder comes a stunning middle grade standalone novel-in-verse about compassion, resilience, and surprising friendships, following a dog named Wombat in the aftermath of a catastrophic fire.

Wombat isn’t actually a wombat—but when the homeless dog is discovered, singed and ash-covered after a terrible fire destroys a community, someone tags her with the nickname and it sticks.

Wombat is a “destiny dog.” Something inside of her (she nicknames it “Voice’) keeps telling her there’s a special someone out there who is meant to be her person.

Surrounded by a devastated town, Wombat takes up residence on a bench near the makeshift community center, an old brick warehouse that, for the most part, survived the flames. A small part of the community center evacuation site has been repurposed for the local wildlife rehab sanctuary that burned down. All of the animals were spared, and the temporary quarters include an elderly fruit bat and a young Northern saw-whet owl.

No matter what, Wombat refuses to move from her perch, despite the efforts of many humans. Clearly the dog is waiting for someone. But for whom? And what are the odds they survived?

Fans of modern classics like Because of Winn-Dixie, Pax, and Katherine Applegate’s own Crenshaw and Odder, and timeless tales like Charlotte’s Web, will find a friend in Wombat and her story. ”

This conversation has been looking for you and waiting for you!

Please welcome Katherine Applegate to the podcast.

Katherine: Hi, my name is Katherine Applegate, and I am the author of lots and lots of books for young readers, and my most recent is called Wombat Waiting.

Matthew: I'm so glad you're here, friend. Welcome back. 

Katherine: Oh, I'm delighted to be here. It's been too long. 

Matthew: Okay, we were catching up a little bit before recording, and so I know a little bit where your head space is as you and I are connecting today, but I'd love just to ask you, what is giving you hope today?

Katherine: As you know from our discussion, this is a challenging question some days. And this may seem counterintuitive, but this week a librarian in, it was Rutherford County, Tennessee, named Luane James was fired. And she was fired because she refused to move a bunch [00:01:00] of mostly queer content books, some violence as well, alleged violence from the children's section to the adult section in order to protect her delicate audience from gender confusion was the argument.

And she stood up and she said no, and cited the First Amendment, cited the freedom to read, and lost her job. And we have seen so much of that for so long now that sometimes I'm startled that it's still happening. I believe somehow that we're gonna get through this, though, and it's librarians who give me that hope.

I was just at Public Library Association. Anytime I'm around librarians, school, public, whatever, I'm heartened because they know the reason they are doing the job they're doing, and because they're not giving up. And if they're not giving up and they're on the front lines, then we can't give up either.

Matthew: America's greatest institution is our public library system- Absolutely ... without question. 

Katherine: [00:02:00] Absolutely. 

Matthew: And to know how libraries, but public libraries reach every single person. They're a great equalizer. What a terrific thing that we have folks continuing to fight for the rights of all. 

Katherine: And they're not already overworked and underpaid

Matthew: I know. 

Katherine: And, you know- ... to have to fight this battle on top of everything else. But really I've just been so heartened by the way they are standing up and fighting back, and it's- Yeah ... we all have a job to do to support them. 

Matthew: It's a fight we all can fight too. We're fighting for- ... all of us.

That's terrific, and I hope that school libraries are able to stay in schools, and I hope that books are able to stay on shelves, and I hope that we are able to push hard enough and amplify our voices loud enough that perhaps irreversible damage isn't done. It's really hard to put those libraries back in schools after you take them [00:03:00] out.

My friends in Michigan would te- would share with us, and other places around the country. Thankfully for now, Maryland, where I am, seems to be holding steady with our school librarians. But I think probably as school librarians it's a threat that we're all feeling whether or not we're talking about it unfortunately.

Katherine: I was on tour in West Virginia, and they were putting up, and it was a rural area, these beautiful new elementary schools. And I thought, yeah. And then it turned out they weren't even bothering to have libraries. 

Matthew: Oh, no. I 

Katherine: mean, let alone librarians. But it I was just shocked because the library, as is the heart of every school.

Matthew: Can you imagine building a school without a heart? 

Do you know? 

Katherine: No. 

Matthew: Just to carry that metaphor, what are we doing? N- not to make a weird transition- ... I was literally gonna be like, "Speaking of heart, Katherine." On that 

Katherine: happy 

Matthew: note. No, am I? God. 

Katherine: Okay, 

Matthew: we're 

Katherine: trying here. 

Matthew: We're, no I think setting the table [00:04:00] to be speaking with an individual who recognizes so much the heart in other people as well as the heart in those libraries it, it's a beautiful thing then to get to talk to you about your newest book because it feels yeah, you wrote it for readers, but you also wrote it for libraries.

You wrote it so that it can be there, and be found by readers, and be used as a way to connect to readers, and draw them in. And that's a beautiful thing. It is. And your books to me have always felt that way. My word, since you and I last talked, how many children have come to know Ivan, and have come to know Bob.

And it just is, it's incredible. Incredible. Bravo to you, but incredible. 

Katherine: It's such a privilege. It is such an honor. I am beyond lucky- ... and I know it. 

Matthew: Let's talk about this latest novel, Wombat Waiting. Do you mind sharing a book talk for those that haven't encountered it yet? 

Katherine: It's it's really was a interesting book to write because I set it during the Los Angeles [00:05:00] fires in 2025, Eaton and Palisades.

I have lived in Southern California myself. I've never encountered a fire directly, although, I've seen the chaos, I've seen the smoke, I've seen the terror. And I wanted to write about a dog in a particularly difficult setting, and also, of course, to talk about climate change. So Wombat Waiting gave me the opportunity to do both.

It's about a dog. I call her a destiny dog. She's a stray. And a destiny dog's a little different from a rescue. A destiny dog is out there looking for her person, determined to find them wherever they are. You know the dogs that end up on your front stoop or the ones that follow your kids home from school, the ones you end up adopting even though your, y- your husband's gonna divorce you if you bring in another dog.

That's a destiny dog. And so she is out looking for her person. She hears a voice, just some kind of [00:06:00] magical, she calls it the echo of wolf song, this voice in her head that says, "That way." And that way, unfortunately, is toward the fires. And she heads, she goes. And I wanted kids to think a little bit about that voice that they hear in their heads sometimes that, when they're feeling different and alone and th- there's something in their heart that says, "No, this is who you are.

This is where you belong. This is what you need to do." Because sometimes we try not to listen to that voice, and Wombat does just the opposite. 

Matthew: Th- that is a big call to give kids that it's okay to listen to that voice even if it's scary, or maybe- ... because it's scary you need to listen to it. 

Katherine: Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. 

Matthew: To interrogate it. I read your author's note, and I love the connection to Hachiko that Japanese, for those that don't know- ... the Japanese dog that, that waited. There's a statue, I believe- Oh, yeah ... of Hachiko, yeah. Waited nine [00:07:00] years for the owner to return after after the owner had passed.

But I love in your note that you also bring up that Bob, the lead character, and the one and only Bob, had opinions, we could say, opinions on Hachiko . Yeah. But it got me thinking about where this seed of a story started for you. I stories are magical. They come from all different places. But I just thought I would ask you a little bit more directly about where this one started for you.

Katherine: Definitely the waiting dogs concept. I love dogs- I know ... and any opportunity to write about them. But there was Hachiko, the Japanese Akita. There was Greyfriars Bobby is another one, a Scottish dog, who I think sat on his owner's grave for 14 years. There have been- Whoa ... all these poignant stories.

And I wanted Wombat to embody that, that intense loyalty and dedication. But the strange thing is, she has not yet met her person. So it's a little bit different. And I... And yes, I did have to address Bob's [00:08:00] issues because, Bob was wrong. 

Matthew: I love... Yeah, you said something along the lines in your notes of Bob having this very clear perspective, but also that when you wrote this, you were exploring how you felt about dogs waiting.

I, I think that's terrific, too. Just the glimpse that we're getting as readers of, yeah, sometimes my characters talk to me as a writer, and I... It's my job to listen, but not to agree with them. They can be 

Katherine: annoying. Sometimes you just plain have to kill them off,

Matthew: oh. So that's what George R.R. Martin was getting at.

In the... No, I don't know. Who knows? Ay. You certainly are piquing my interest, too, with this notion of a picture. I have this book in my library that I love sharing with kids, and it's about trees that have been around and have seen history, right? Nonfiction book, beautiful book, beautiful portraits of these different trees.

The survivor tree in New York City, and, and- ... some of these other trees that have been just around in the world [00:09:00] forever. And it makes me think of a, perhaps this is already in the works or something a picture book of dogs waiting, because I don't think I realized... I am a dog person, and I've had dogs my whole life, and I know that my dog waits for me.

But the notion of exploring that universal connection of waiting is beautiful. And it's hard 

Katherine: for kids, of course, to wait. Yeah. It's hard for me to wait. Of course it is ... and so there's that element of, too. As a stray dog, she's on the streets. Always ready to move and always paranoid.

And so the very concept of sitting in one place. She ends up on a bench that happens to be near a shelter where both humans and some wildlife are staying. And it's the bench she's meant to be on. And she sits there and sits there. And she is not what you'd call a cuddly dog. No.

She's terrified of humans. But gradually she becomes this sort of go-to comfort object for so many of the humans there and realizes there's a role for her to play. And you were talking about the [00:10:00] statue in Japan. At the end that, that was the catalyst for that particular part of my book.

She ends up having a statue on a m- on a bench made, and it says "Dedicated to Wombat, who waited. Our furry dog mother." 

Matthew: The notion of having this voice inside of you, to have a waiting for who knows what but that I'm supposed to wait, is just really entrancing to me- ... and perhaps compelling for you as a writer and that's why.

But I'd love to also talk about finding the voice for this story, because I've read novels of yours in these wonderful little... I refer to them as micro chapters. Your Oh, I love that ... Ivan series are little micro chapters. They're such little bites that we can as a teacher, as a cl- as a teacher reading aloud to all ages of children, but also coming from the classroom, to have a book like that where I could just read like a, "Let's just read one today.

Or one or two. Let's read a couple." It was so easy to do that. And I think also then to [00:11:00] have children of my own and to have my own now 11-year-old two years ago read Ivan and see how easy it is to get through that book- ... because you're just reading chapters, really worked for her. And this novel is in verse, and it gives voice to Wombat and to really this world in a really wonderful way.

I wanted to ask you though, as per your craft how you found that format for this book, or maybe even for any book, but for this book. 

Katherine: It's funny, isn't it? Because I think there's a lot of... I love free verse, and I... it's out there in so many different middle grade books now. And sometimes I think it's perfectly apt, and sometimes I think it's, no, it could, it could've been prose.

I I've used it a few times. I used it with Otter, with Home of the Brave. Yeah. I think when I wanna get a certain lyricism to begin with and feel like there's a lot of room for some figurative language, that's part [00:12:00] of it. Also, I think big, complicated natural world- phenomena are sometimes easier to explain.

With Otter, she's in the water. How do you get that across? With this we're talking about the massive impact of a wildfire, and the Santa Ana winds coming down, and the terror. And somehow it just felt, it felt right. It's really random and intuitive. I do love short chapters though, and I w- I always tell kids I was a very reluctant reader.

For me, Charlotte's Web was my gateway drug. It was, it was my third grade teacher- Beautiful ... Mrs. Gray. 

Matthew: Okay. 

Katherine: We all had a Mrs. Gray. I, when I do my school visits, I have this grainy black and white photo of her, and I always tell teachers, "You are being a Mrs. Gray to somebody." "You are changing a life."

Sh- I'm sure she never knew I went on to write so many books, but that moment I remember. And every creative person I know has a Mrs. Gray [00:13:00] and can cite them to this day. I think that's just such a tribute to teachers and librarians. So for me it was Charlotte's Web. But I, even now I'm a slow reader and I l- I love a lot of white space.

I, I tend toward poetry and and simple, spare word choices when I can. So it just works. My daughter w- had dyslexia, and she used to call chapter books fat books. Okay ... and aspired to write, to read those fat books. And I think for a lot of kids who are, like me, a little iffy, seeing all that white space is really reassuring.

Matthew: I was told by... Lord knows why I chose to be an English major in college. I wasn't a reader. Or rather, once I became an independent reader, I didn't have my parents as models for reading. And so why did I choose that? And I changed my major to education later, but I think upon inspection it was probably because I was drawn to [00:14:00] story.

But wow, did I struggle, because I could not keep up with the reading and couldn't understand how anybody did. And my professor at the time, Dr. Mangan told me, "Matthew, you're a read every word reader." And she said, "Most readers- Oh ... as they're reading in life, as they're reading in elementary, middle, high learn to read by skimming."

I, this still is a concept that blows my mind 'cause I don't know how to do it. I don't understand that some people- There is ... listening are like, "Yeah, that's what I do. I just I skim and my brain picks up what is going on." I can't understand that. I'm a read every word reader, and it causes to me, me to be an incredibly slow reader.

Yes. Although a very detailed reader. And so I thank goodness for the wide accessibility now today of audiobooks because it's the only way even that I can keep on top of- ... middle-grade novels. But when I found in library school novels in verse, when I found Out [00:15:00] of the Dust... Or i- into the dust.

When I found works of poetry when ultimately when I was already teaching and Kwame Alexander had The Crossover come out- 

... 

Matthew: It felt oh, I know how to read these books because I know how to read every word. But when there's a good poet at the helm, to come back to what you were saying, not all verse novels really feel like this perhaps was the right- 

Form for the story to take. But with a good poet at the helm, with a Nikki Grimes, with a Candice Fleming- ... with a Katherine Applegate, listen, I read your books, it works and it allows us both to have the balance of white space, but also the pacing that you're breaking lines deliberately. 

And that intentionality causes me, the reader, to read in a way as if you were conducting me, and that- That's cute ... that really works for this reader. 

Katherine: I'm stealing this. 

Matthew: Yeah. 

Katherine: I love the [00:16:00] read every word reader, 'cause that's- Yeah ... that's it. I've never been able to quantify it, and I was exactly the same person.

I, I got a degree in English, and I wasn't even sure why. But- 

Matthew: No kidding ... 

Katherine: yeah, same thing. Same thing, and then I came out and, sacked groceries and cleaned toilets, 

Matthew: but- What do you do with a BA in English, right? It's 

Katherine: like a philosophy degree. 

Matthew: Yeah. 

Katherine: But but I love that's exactly it. It's, and it slows you down, you're right, enough to see what the writer intended.

To- Yeah ... conducting is a good way of phrasing it. 

Matthew: But- Amazing to hear that that's how you identify as well. I didn't know that about you. Yeah. And you may be the first author I've ever spoken to who has told me, "I'm a slow reader," because I'm in a, I'm in the library field, Katherine, and I'm around authors all the time.

All I hear is what incredibly well-read people I'm around, and frankly, I [00:17:00] love story. I can feel the love of story that I have- But I don't know that I would call myself well-read. I wish I was. I certainly, Sure ... maybe put too much pressure on myself comparing myself to other people because I feel like I'm not as well-read as you are.

I'm doing the best I can. But wonderful. I don't mean to sound insulting, but wonderful to hear that about you. Because for me then you're showing me a window into a future that, that feels okay, that feels safe. 

Katherine: Oh, I f- I, I know we're kindred spirits. It makes me feel better too, because of course most authors are vo- voracious readers.

Matthew: Yeah. 

Katherine: And yeah, I'm always playing catch-up. And audiobooks help, yes. But then, there'll be books to blurb or there'll be distractions for touring or something. And it's... I find it really hard to to pace myself the way I'd like to. 

Matthew: Yes. 

Katherine: So maybe when we retire. 

Matthew: Yeah. I feel like I have a life in audiobooks, narrating audiobooks, and part of that is because I [00:18:00] often read the stories I'm...

I- if I'm reading print- 

... 

Matthew: I often read it aloud because reading it aloud somehow is faster than me reading it in my head. 

Katherine: And 

Matthew: then when I read it aloud, I can hear myself, and so I'm creating the audiobook for myself. Anyway, I ooh, I love this connection. I'm never gonna forget this, my friend.

I know. 

Katherine: It's fascinating. It's really reassuring, isn't it? Yeah. I'm sure 

Matthew: there are more 

Katherine: of us out there. 

Matthew: Oh, there must be. Talk to me about your love of animals. Talk to me about... animals feature so prominently in your books, of course. Why... What do you think compels you to write from their voice, from their perspective?

I love that quality about you, and I have a strong feeling that a lot of your readers look for that from you. Where does that come from? 

Katherine: I just... I was always that kid. I always had pets. I was determined- Wow ... to be a veterinarian. And I- Oh, 

Matthew: yeah? 

Katherine: I worked for a vet in high school. One of the reasons I wasn't really into [00:19:00] fiction was like why am I reading made-up stuff?

There's nonfiction about animals I should be- Huh ... I should be absorbing that. And I did. I assisted in surgery. I did all kinds of cool things. Mostly picked up a lot of poop and, gave cats baths. But I realized I was so interested in the cognitive chasm between humans and other species and what are they thinking and how are they perceiving the world.

And I've never ceased to be fascinated by that. Certainly with Animorphs, my husband and I- Explored that. Although it, we, we were writing a book a month, so there wasn't a lot of time- 

Matthew: That 

Katherine: was fast, yeah. To get an... And, that was pre-internet, so the only research was, this stack of books this high.

But but I just, I find that fascinating. And it, I'm so lucky because when I want to explore a species I have the opportunity to really go in depth. I've spent time with, baby gorillas and otters and it's just- 

Matthew: Yeah ... 

Katherine: absolutely never ceases to [00:20:00] amaze and fascinate me.

Matthew: You spend time with trees. 

Katherine: Trees. Lots of trees. 

Matthew: I love it. Listen, I love it. I think that in the right hands, communicating a story through the voice of an animal is an empathy driver. And is a really terrific thing for the same way that you and I think are probably similar ages. I grew up going to zoos and loved going to zoos and aquariums, and then also around my high school time, there was a real strong backlash towards zoos and aquariums, and is it really responsible for us to be putting these animals in cages- and what have you. But there's, of course, still an argument that being able to visit animals and connect with them is a strong empathy driver for all of us as well. And again, growing up in Baltimore and in the DC area gave me a lot of access to seeing a lot of [00:21:00] animals and being able to have that care.

I'm glad that you, that your love of animals is a love and not just a fascination, because you write from love as you're voicing them, and that I think is another quality that sets you apart from- From other folks 

Katherine: I think kids really relate to animals because of- Yeah ... power dynamics, because they themselves are so powerless- in the hands of crazy adults like us. And and so it's a great... When you've got an animal, it can be a wonderful surrogate to, to explore that kind of thing. But you mentioned zoos, and I... This- I have had a real there was a real ambivalence for a while with how to deal with that particular question, because of course we wish all animals were wild.

Of course every elephant should be in a at very least a beautiful sanctuary with miles to walk every day. 

Matthew: Yes. 

Katherine: But that's not our reality. And I've become a reluctant advocate for good zoos. And there are [00:22:00] good zoos. They're AZA accredited. They work on species preservation and education.

And as you point out they allow us to connect with animals in a really profound way. So it's been a learning curve. 

Matthew: I'm grateful that the Maryland Zoo and our National Zoo have both been, in my experience, so upfront and transparent about, "We no longer have polar bears at the zoo."

"And here's why we decided to-" Here's why, yeah ... "move away from. We've redesigned this entire elephant walk path, and here's why. We are yeah, no longer yeah, having these animals here. We are a member of this zoo group because..." My partner and I went to Colorado to see a show at Red Rocks.

We went to their wonderful zoo there, and got to speak to the folks about how they actually have taken some of our animals and exchanged when they're building new habitats, that these zoos in this network care for one another's animals. It was a beautiful thing. Oh, that's really good. Not again that, that zoos are the best or the worst or [00:23:00] whatever, but just that there are responsible humans at the helm there that, that are making sure that they're able to just care.

Just care. Care the right way. Be the right representation of our species that we want them to be. 

Katherine: Exactly. Exactly, yeah. 

Matthew: Do you mind if I read your poem to you? Can I read one of your poems to you? I wanna talk big picture. Better you 

Katherine: than me. 

Matthew: I... Listen I'll read someone's work to them any day.

I love that. I do it every day anyway. But I want to close our time together talking about the way, the respect that you have for your readers and the way you talk up to them. And certainly we see that through the way that you, inhabit the voices of animals and the people in these animals' lives.

But in Wombat Waiting, you have a poem called The Art of Waiting, and you write, "Still, this fire was so different from others. The enormity of it, the tragedy of it. Something was happening to the world, it seemed to Barnabas, and it was hard not to think [00:24:00] that humans were to blame." End quote. I would love to talk to you about your feelings toward your readers as you write.

It's apparent that you don't write devoid of them, but that they're on your mind as you write. Talk to me about the responsibility you feel as an author when you're communicating some of the human-made messes that are apparent in our world. 

Katherine: And there's so many to choose from. 

Matthew: So many.

It's- Really, you could write for the rest of your life 

Katherine: It is, climate change, to take an example, because that's clearly the focus of Wombat Waiting, is i- it's not something we can hide from kids. They can look out the window. I think there's this understandable but misguided instinct to protect kids from the world, and they're...

They get it. They see it. One of the things I'm, I am so grateful for when I do school visits [00:25:00] is I am reminded how, just how smart and savvy and engaged, say a fourth grader can be. And it goes back, we were talking at the beginning about the librarian and the attempt by these parents and board members to protect their kids.

It doesn't work that way. What we do is we help them through. I think books let you practice being better human beings. They l- they allow you to experience secondhand really hard things and practice and ask yourself, "How would I handle that?" And it's, it's the mirrors and windows theory, but I think it's so important when we're talking about complicated issues.

The last book I wrote Pocket Bear, touched on war in an indirect way. One of the characters was, refugee from the war in Ukraine. And again, I think if you do it, I always have in my [00:26:00] head saying, "Oh, maybe second to fifth." There's maybe my sweet spot is third or fourth graders. 

So you wanna do it gently.

You don't, you don't have to slam it over their heads, but you absolutely have to acknowledge that the world's complicated and that they can help fix it. 

Matthew: Yeah. They're a part of it. And the choice is to do nothing or to help fix it. Yeah. 

Katherine: Yeah. 

Matthew: Wonderful. 

Katherine: Yeah. 

Matthew: I am so grateful for our time together.

Moreover, I'm grateful for you. Thank you for writing these stories for our children and for all of us. Thank you, Katherine. 

Katherine: Oh, thank you. It's been an absolute delight. 

Matthew: I have the pleasure of seeing a library full of children tomorrow morning. Is there a message that I can bring to them from you? 

Katherine: I'll tell you what I have been telling kids at the end of every school visit.

I am telling them, and it's not grammatically correct, embrace your weird. And by that, I mean I always tell them [00:27:00] every creative person I know, be it, movies or art or m- music or literature, they're weird. They look at the world differently, and I mean that in the best possible sense. It's why we can create magical things, because we're thinking differently.

And I think as kids get a little bit older, a little past the sweet spot I was talking about, there's such pressure to be just like everybody else. And everybody else, that's boring. So I try to remind them it's okay to be different and to and to remember that's where all the magic starts.